First, I’d like to thank all the readers that chimed in during the Conducting Some Research post. I knew we had a lot of knowledgeable readers when it comes to mythology, but I wasn’t sure how many would be willing to discuss it here at Brat-halla. Well, that’s what this is about… discussing mythology. I’ll be making this a regular occurrence here at the site to open discussions and share different stories about specific topics in mythology. First off, here are the rules of engagement (though not really rules… more like suggestions… mild suggestions):
- Share something. Everyone will have their favorite stories dealing with a topic but I’d also like to see some people share discussions about stories/legends/tales dealing with the topic that might not be commonly known or stuff that’s strange but fun. Share things about how this particular topic inspired you. It’s all open as long as you try to keep to the topic at hand.
- Be perfectly human. Your comment doesn’t have to be perfect. If you have references/resources you can cite, that’s fine but not required. We’re going back to the oral tradition of mythology here and passing along stories and passing along inspirations from those stories. If you don’t remember the myth, legend or tale exactly, just say so and then let it flow from the keyboard. Since we have a lot of people here that have taken many different paths to their knowledge of mythology, I’m expecting lots of fun stuff.
- Have fun! This is actually rule #1, but I listed it last so it stays fresh in everyone’s mind.
And what would a good host be like if he didn’t lead off:
In the book Viking & Norse Mythology (by H.R. Ellis Davidson), there’s a passage in the section on The Valkyries that inspired a story idea I had pitched a long time back:
Protective spirits of this kind were said to attach themselves to the kings and princes who worshipped Odin, giving them help and counsel and bringing good fortune in battle, while at death they received them as their ‘husbands’.
I thought of Valkyries walking the paths of Midgard and allying with the rich and noble to counsel and train their sons to be valiant warriors and worthy of the halls of Valhalla. And then I thought, what if they were still trying to do that job in today’s society?
Thus began a crazy ride in my head of the last Valkyrie on Midgard stubbornly refusing to give up and return to Asgard until she trained a warrior to die a valiant death in battle. But there’s really no need for battle amongst the affluent members of society. At least… not with the good ones.
She stumbled across a boy one day as her options were growing slimmer. A boy with a noble heart and stubborn tenacity for chivalry (that got him beat up a lot). And he was a member of a rich and noble family… a crime boss’ son. It was close enough. She volunteered to “toughen the boy up” and teach him to defend himself. And succeeded beyond anyone’s expectations.
Then he died. In battle against a rival organization. Defending his comrades from certain death so they could finish their job. And delighted, she came back for him to raise him from the dead and lead him to Valhalla. But unfortunately, the path to Valhalla had been sealed by someone on Earth… someone who didn’t want the gods interfering until it was much too late to stop her plans. And the only people capable of stopping her before she takes over the world are the last Valkyrie and the last Einherjar on Midgard.
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Now, it’s your turn. I’m eager to hear from all of you. Remember, have fun!
For the regular readers that comment, you might have noticed I made some tweaks to the comment system. Those were done with this discourse specifically in mind. Comments can now be nested, so if you want to reply to a specific comment you can by just hitting the Reply link underneath it.
Also, we have gravatars! By default, they’ll be Loki if you don’t have a gravatar set up, but if you want to set one up, just register your email address (that you use in comments) over at:
http://www.gravatar.com/
After after a little while, they’ll show up here when you respond.
Most of the early Anglo-Saxon kings were “Odin descended”. Their family tree was often five or so historical kings, and five or so North European mythological figures with Odin as the founder (after Christianity, traced from there to Noah and Adam). Queen Elizabeth can trace her ancestry back to Cerdic, and nine generations before Cerdic was Odin/Woden. Not sure how that could help this currently outstanding comic.
The point of the post wasn’t really to give me ideas. Trust me, I have plenty of ideas–I have at least a few dozen storylines for Brat-halla just laying around in my notebooks waiting to be written (or finished being written in some cases).
Primarily, I just wanted to have some good, mind-expanding mythology talk. And we’re already off to a good start with you and Jay.
Sorry. Yeah, ideas are easy, execution is hard. There was a collection of SF stories by Barry Longyear a while back called “It Came from Schenectady” because he said he subscribed to an idea of the month club there.
Back to things Norse, there’s at least one story (I’ll have to do some digging for it) about a brawl that broke out at a feast, involving beating each other with beef bones. The original food fight. I don’t recall who was involved.
Off topic to be sure, but does anyone else get the impression that the Norse Gods were the precursor to the Little Rascals?
I don’t remember the names and everything of this myth, I hope there is a lokean out there who can build on this. Anyways, Loki had to make a giantess laugh or she was going to marry Balder(I believe). All the other gods had tried and failed. So Loki found a goat and a rope and stripped naked. He then tied on end of the rope around his privates and the other end to the goats beard. He then proceeded to run around while the goat tried to feast upon his privates. This caused the Giantess to laugh and all was well and fine. I mention this story specifically because it illustrates the fact that Loki was not just chaos, his antics often times helped the gods. Another good example is the weapons of the gods. Never mind the fact that it all started because he cut all of Sif’s hair off and Thor threatened to beat him to death. The point is that all of his mischief and chaos in the end helped as much as it hurt. Any idea’s?
Ooh, I can fill in the names. That’s the story of Skadi. The daughter of the giant Thiazi who was killed by the gods after Loki had rescued Idun from him (of course, Loki was also the one who turned Idun over to the giant in the first place).
Anyways, Skadi went to Asgard seeking vengeance and they tried to placate her by giving her a man (Njord). I know… it sounds like a plot out of an old hillbilly show.
The offer was good but she would only accept it on one condition… if one of the gods could make her laugh. And the rest is… yeah… pretty crazy.
And now go look at Episode #7 and see why I always giggle when I read the part where Loki calls Thor a goat-humper.
hmm, I missed that the first time through. Of course loki has no room to talk about animal humping. Umm, where else did that eight legged horse come from.
Now I have a challange, find a reason why the death of Balder was a good thing when viewed by Loki. Any takers? I have an answer but I’m curious what you all have to add. I’m mean I know.
Probably one of my favorites is Thor’s Fish story.
Thor and Loki go fishing one day, (possibly with someone else) and Loki decides to play a prank on Thor. So what he does is he distracts Thor, and goes into the water, and hooks Thor’s fishing line into the mouth of Jormungandr, then pulls on the line. Thor thinks he has a bite, and starts pulling while Loki gets back on the boat, and starts cheering him on, but Thor can’t seem to land his ‘catch’. So Thor is struggling with all his might, bolstered by his girdle of Giants’ strength, but all he manages to do is nearly tip the boat, so Loki, in order to save the boat, cuts the line. Thor says to Loki, “Why did you do that? A few more seconds and I would have landed that fish!” to which Loki replies, “I’m sorry, I was frightened that the boat would tip! I guess this is the one that got away.” So Thor is forever convinced that he almost landed the largest fish ever, while Loki and the rest of the Aesir know better.
In one version I’ve come across Baldur is “the harshness of light made manifest” and nothing could look directly at him. So Loki convinces the blind Hod to kill Baldur with the sword Mistellteinn (mistletoe) for the good of the universe.
In another version Hod and Baldur were both evil bandits and fought eachother for the hand of Nanna. Hod won but still not satisfied he steals and uses Mistellteinn to kill Baldur all on his own with no help or persuasion from Loki
The interpretation I’ve always thought felt right is just that Loki got Hod to kill Baldur because no one, not even a god, can be invulnerable. His antics serve the purpose of keeping balance in the worlds.
I read a book once that explained Loki as being a Jotun. It was how cleaver he was that earned him the God title.
But the Jotun existed before the Aesir, or at least I’m pretty sure they did. I never really saw Loki as mischievious, or even cruel. I always saw him as someone who was raised with different morals.
Kind of like comparing someone from America to Japan. They do things a bit different, but that does not necessarily mean they’re doing them wrong.
Hmm, my two favorites were always the Giant king who outwitted Thor, Loki, and Hermod, and the rescue of Mjolnir. In those, Loki was more help that hinder, although the old Giant King got one over on him as well. Plus, imagining grown Thor in a wedding dress is always good for a laugh.
Speaking of Njord, when is he going to make an appearance, with his nicely washed feet?.
I’m working on getting the characters we already have fully developed and then I’ll slowly start adding in new characters. We have a lot of characters as it is and I just want to make sure it’s not too overwhelming for new readers.
I’ve always liked Alvismal, the one where Thor (Thor!) outwits the dwarf Alvis. Alvis talked Thor’s daughter Trudi into marriage, but she wasn’t rally happy about it and Thor didn’t want a dwarf in the family. So Thor tell Alvis that he want a clever son-in-law and ask Alvis questions of the lore until sunrise where the dwarf turns to stone (cause dwarfs can’t stand the sun).
Oh, and I’ve always pondered of the story on Gullveig, the Vanir goddess. She did something to piss of the Asir and then they killed (burned her to death I think) her three times.
What did she do?
Gullveig was the Vanir who came to Asgard with a serious mad-on for gold. She talked and talked and talked and talked… about gold. And just like that annoying house guest who won’t shut up about one particular topic, she got the boot. But instead of the polite, “Oh, I’m sorry, the indoor party is being called early because of snow this summer.” excuse to kick out of the house, they punted her into the fire. They’re gods… that’s how they roll. It is assumed that Gullveig was a witch who had the power to create madness among men (and apparently gods).
Anyways, all this burning and rebirth pissed off the Vanir and set off the war between the Aesir and Vanir.
[...] you haven’t seen it, I started a Norse Discourse post last week. We’re talking about Valkyries. At least, it started out about [...]
Your mention of Gullveig reminds me of one of my favorite stories! Though in it she’s a witch/giantess, not a Vanir. It’s a story from Odin’s wandering days. Odin and Loki are wandering the world as merely men, and they come across an otter playing in a river. Loki, being Loki, kills it with a stone. It turns out the otter is the son of Hreidmar, and brother of Regin and Fafnir that Loki has killed.
When Odin was asked how he would pay the blood-price for the senseless death of Hreidmar’s son, he should’ve thought of wisdom, and offered him a drink from Mimir’s well, but instead he thought of gold, and so Loki was sent to find a hoard of gold large enough to cover every hair on Otter’s skin. The only treasure great enough was Andvari’s Hoard, which was cursed. But Loki tricked him and stole his treasure.
It was the unjust theft in the name of Odin that allowed Gulveig to reenter Asgard (and they couldn’t light her on fire this time), and she was the one who poisoned Loki’s mind to the Aesir with greed and envy. And that’s how Loki “fell to the dark side” as it were, along with being the basis for Sigurd and Fafnir.
Oh also, I understood Gullveig as a symbol of greed, because she was also behind the whole Brisingamen thing, yah?
For someone only mentioned once by name (in Voluspa, I believe), Gullveig sure does get connected to a lot of stories. It can be both confusing and fun to check out the different theories about her.
I never heard Gullveig connected to Brissingemen..? Just to Gild as such.
I was those nice 4 dwarfs that made Brissingamen for a ”special price for you” to Freya (another interesting story which leads to another war because Oðin wans Freja to prove herself for the jewelery or something)
There are some scholars that believe Gullveig was another name for Freyja… thus the connection to her necklace.
Many people don’t realize that Odin’s price for Freya keeping the necklace was to become his chief Valkyrie. Makes her a goddess of love and war. A lot like the Babylonian Ishtar/Inanna, now that I think of it.
With all the parallels I’ve found between the Greco-Roman, Norse, and Sumerian/Babylonian mythologies, filtering down the real truth that inspired the stories can be quite fun. I’m hoping to one day visit the ruins of Catal Huyuk, which predates all known permanent settlements except Jericho, to explore firsthand their mythological symbolism to attempt to trace the path between there and the later European cultures.
I like the Otter story. But a magical gold ring of power everyone fights over? That’ll never sell.
Veering slightly off topic, but, strangely, also back on topic… All I have to say on the subject of Valkyries is… can we have them in the comic again..? I loves the valkyries, I do.
I know you do, Anthony. We’ll see them again soon. Real soon.
*HAPPY DANCE!*
Probably one of the more humorous Norse stories I read was one where Mjolner was stolen by a giant (Loki had a hand in the theft, IIRC), and his price for returning it was the hand of Freya in marriage.
Freya naturally refuses, so Thor is forced to DRESS UP AS FREYA, with Loki posing as “her” handmaiden to help the charade.
This storyline *DESERVES* a Brat-Halla interpretation! It’s one of those things that Thor would be like “Never. Mention. This. Again.” The whole crossdessing thing was Heimdall’s idea, but I can see Hod suggesting it.
One other tale I remember is not “Norse”, per se, but is derived from the same characters. It’s a Teutonic telling of how the “Easter Bunny” came into being, back before Christianity got their hooks into the holiday.
Easter was originally a Germanic/Teutonic spring fertility holiday. Every year, about the time of the Spring Equinox, a bird would fly around laying brightly colored eggs. Hod, being the god of winter, wanted to prolong his season, so one year he asked Loki for help. Loki changed the bird into a rabbit, because, “whoever heard of a rabbit laying eggs?”
Well, in traditional Loki fashion, the whole thing backfired. (He really should work on thinking through the consequences of his actions.) When spring came around, the rabbit started laying brightly-colored eggs!
Unfortunately, I never did find out what Hod did to Loki for failing.
Cross-dressing Thor? Wasn’t dressing him up as a Valkyrie bad enough? Besides, the cross-dressing bride-to-be thing works so much better with a beard.
well, this is Thor as a little boy. I kind of remeber a scene from the Goonies when Chunk’s wailing to the Fertellis that one time he stole his uncle’s hairpiece and used it as a beard to play moses.
I spent my youth eagerly awating to do the same, however none of my bald relatives bothered with a hairpiece.
Been sometime since I last commented, but a lot has happened.
Anyway the last Valkerie Story sounds like exactly the kind of thing that makes me buy a book. I would love to read it.
I would have loved to have gotten it published, but sadly, not all pitches get picked up. But I did convert the plot from comic to novel, and I’ve slowly been picking away at it (still have a ways to go though). When I finally finish it, this will be the first place I post something about it.